ragekage
Neophyte
Posts: 20 
Title: Sensei
Mana: Black
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Post by ragekage on Feb 11, 2016 16:07:44 GMT -6
The  spell card reads, "Destroy target squad creature that was attacked this turn." Do I as the attacker have to make a successful attack to play this card (i.e. damage markers are applied)? This would make sense in terms of balance for a couple reasons: - Having to actually hit your target puts the emphasis on your dice roll.
- The attacking figure's move turn would be consumed providing some balance in the number of actions taken.
- doesn't have much in the way of direct attack spells so giving the deck an overt offensive spell this powerful makes sense.
I submitted this question to Hasbro today but wanted to see what folks here think. |
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Toshi Umezawa
Apprentice
Posts: 100
Title: Hyozan, Clan Umezawa
Mana: Black
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Post by Toshi Umezawa on Feb 11, 2016 16:23:32 GMT -6
I believe the way this card works is, you must destroy the creature after the damage is calculated (whether or not you hit). Otherwise, it would read "Destroy target squad creature that was dealt damage from an attack this turn."
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ragekage
Neophyte
Posts: 20
Title: Sensei
Mana: Black
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Post by ragekage on Feb 11, 2016 17:58:58 GMT -6
I'm sorry i don't understand, "after the damage is calculated" wouldn't that mean that damage was dealt to the target i'm using the spell on?
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Post by Targanth on Feb 11, 2016 18:25:16 GMT -6
My understanding is that this spell must be played after the attack phase is compete. Then, if there are any figures that were attacked survived, they can be the target of the spell. The attack does not have to have been successful, in fact you might have done zero damage.
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Toshi Umezawa
Apprentice
Posts: 100
Title: Hyozan, Clan Umezawa
Mana: Black
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Post by Toshi Umezawa on Feb 11, 2016 18:27:01 GMT -6
What I mean by "after the damage is calculated" is that "after the attack has happened and you compare your  dice with your opponents  dice." Targanth said it better than I did. I apologize for not being clear enough. |
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ragekage
Neophyte
Posts: 20
Title: Sensei
Mana: Black
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Post by ragekage on Feb 11, 2016 21:16:22 GMT -6
Oh oh oh! I get it now. After action 4 is complete I can play Sunlance. Meaning the move and attack phases, actions 3 and 4, are complete. That makes so much sense and is in-line with my understand of how this card balances with other decks. Cheers! Thanks! |
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ragekage
Neophyte
Posts: 20
Title: Sensei
Mana: Black
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Post by ragekage on Feb 12, 2016 10:14:39 GMT -6
Hasbro's official response:
Thank you for contacting Hasbro regarding Magic the Gathering: Arena of the Planeswalkers. I appreciate your interest!
I'm pleased to reply and advise that yes, the attack has to be successful, no matter what the damage.
Again, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to reach out to us.
I hope you have a fun day!
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Post by Targanth on Feb 12, 2016 10:23:39 GMT -6
Thanks for posting! We're back where you started it looks like. So what do you think makes a successful attack? Any attack that was not prohibited by by a spell of enchantment? Any attack where the attacker rolled attack dice? Any attack where the attacker rolled at least one ? |
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ragekage
Neophyte
Posts: 20
Title: Sensei
Mana: Black
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Post by ragekage on Feb 12, 2016 11:42:05 GMT -6
I take their answer to mean that damage must have been dealt to the target. Whether from a figure or a spell. I don't think has any other direct damage spell cards (that i can think of at the moment) so a spell combo wouldn't but possible. Leaving the only possible scenario to be one of the figures needs to make a successful attack where damage counters are applied to a squad creature. Then Sunlance can be played. |
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Post by Vegietarian18 on Feb 12, 2016 11:46:13 GMT -6
I don't think it means that; I think it means in case the attack was cancelled through a card like Fog or Call to Heel, it was not successful. I don't think you have to deal damage for an attack to count
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ragekage
Neophyte
Posts: 20
Title: Sensei
Mana: Black
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Post by ragekage on Feb 12, 2016 13:11:18 GMT -6
I don't think it means that; I think it means in case the attack was cancelled through a card like Fog or Call to Heel, it was not successful. I don't think you have to deal damage for an attack to count See my post at the bottom of the Living Faq: planeswalker-arena.boards.net/thread/22/living-faqMy full question to Hasbro was, "Does the opposing player's figure have to take damage for Sunlance to be played? i.e. does the attack need to be successful? |
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Post by Targanth on Feb 12, 2016 14:18:20 GMT -6
Q. The full question to Hasbro was, "Does the opposing player's figure have to take damage for Sunlance to be played? i.e. does the attack need to be successful? A. yes, the attack has to be successful, no matter what the damage. The answer almost raises as many more questions as it answers. Can an attack be successful yet still deal no damage? It it a successful attack if I roll 2 and my opponent rolls 2 ? My attack was successful, but the defense was also successful - no damage happens. But the answer, no matter what the damage, seems to include no damage as a possible result of a successful attack. Not the only confusing response from Hasbro |
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Post by Vegietarian18 on Feb 15, 2016 11:00:55 GMT -6
It's not a confusing response. Successful and does damage are two different things. Successful just means the attack was not cancelled by either Call to Heel or Fog or whatever else. A successful attack is one where you roll attack dice. That's it.
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Post by HlRasr on Feb 15, 2016 15:24:49 GMT -6
Simple, I agree. I honestly don't know how you can confuse this ruling.
Sunlance says "Destroy target squad creature that was attacked this turn." It does not say destroy target squad creature that was damaged by an attack this turn.
If your opponent uses fog, the attack was still successful but the damage was prevented. Did I attack that squad creature? Yup. I can now play Sunlance. Simple.
It is the OP that first defined "a successful attack" as an attack that deals damage. That is not the proper definition. Hasbro sent a reply defining a successful attack is one that is made. They said that with cards that unsummon in mind (Call to Heel). This card triggers with an attack but stops the attack dice from rolling, therefore unsuccessful.
You guys just over thought this one.
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ragekage
Neophyte
Posts: 20
Title: Sensei
Mana: Black
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Post by ragekage on Feb 18, 2016 9:03:39 GMT -6
I asked for further clarification from Hasbro. Their response is hard to misunderstand. Damage must be dealt for Sunlance to be played.
My question:
"To further clarify: A successful attack is when damage markers are assigned to the target creature, correct? Meaning if an enchantment prevents damage or if the target successfully defends against the attack with dice, that attack is unsuccessful and Sunlance could not be played.
The previous reply seemed to say that an attack where zero damage is applied is still successful."
Hasbro's response:
"Thank you for your email, I am pleased to reply.
Per the instructions:
For attack rolls, the attacker counts only crossed weapons symbols. For defense rolls, the defender counts only shields. If the attacker rolls the same number of crossed weapons symbols (hits) or less than the defender rolls shields, the attack is unsuccessful. The attacking and defending figures stay where they are, and that attack is over.
So since the attack is unsuccessful, you would not be able to play the Sunlance.
Hope that clarifies it for you!
"
Kind regards,
Oneida
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Post by Vegietarian18 on Feb 18, 2016 13:12:37 GMT -6
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the people running the FAQ do not know what they are talking about. It's just random people who have played the game a few times who answer FAQs for 15 other games. Most of his response is explaining how damage is dealt. He's not an Arena of the Planeswalker authority.
If you read the actual card, it says nothing about doing damage, just attacking. Very clear. I would be willing to bet that if you emailed Hasbro again, you would get a different answer. I'm going to continue to play the card the correct way.
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Post by HlRasr on Feb 19, 2016 15:03:52 GMT -6
Yeah, if that is the final ruling, I am going to remove that spell from my deck. There is no way I am spending 30 points on a card that can only destroy one damaged squad creature and only on the turn I damage that one squad creature. Talk about a waste of a card. No amount of Hasbro emails can change the way the English language works. If I ever play against someone who feels the need to correct me, I will point them to a dictionary. I will continue to play the card as it reads. |
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Post by Yawgmoth on Feb 22, 2016 13:19:22 GMT -6
I agree. I think the ruling that the attack has to be successful to be a bit misinformed.
The second ruling about what consitutes a successful attack is concise.
But the first ruling is a head scratcher that clearly goes against the language as written on the card.
I too, will continue to play it as the target simply has to be attacked, successful or not.
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Post by tochas on Feb 24, 2016 6:33:38 GMT -6
Hello . For the avoidance of doubt , an attack is considered successful when the attacker and defender have the opportunity to roll the dice. I give the example of  card " fog" . The damage was prevented, but the attack was successful, can then use the sunlance to destroy a creature.A case of a failed attack is if we use the unsummon , here there is no dice rolled . I hope this helps and let us put an end to this doubt. Greetings and sorry for my english |
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spell card reads, "Destroy target squad creature that was attacked this turn."
dice with your opponents 
dice." Targanth said it better than I did. I apologize for not being clear enough.
card " fog" . The damage was prevented, but the attack was successful, can then use the sunlance to destroy a creature.A case of a failed attack is if we use the unsummon , here there is no dice rolled .