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Post by Targanth on Jul 3, 2016 11:04:22 GMT -6
The rules for using the Cryptoliths are posted over at Heroscaprers (by user Kajog), I'll repost them here: The good news - use 4 movement to climb up one. They can be used by non-flayinf creatures as we;; as flying creatures. They are also destructible - they can be chopped down.
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negmon
Neophyte
Posts: 18
Mana: Green
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Post by negmon on Jul 3, 2016 17:18:27 GMT -6
I am interested and excited to see how these work. If nothing else, it is cool they are adding new types of innovative terrain.
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Post by smutteringplib on Jul 4, 2016 1:24:44 GMT -6
Played a game with the cryptoliths today. If you are playing with them, make sure you include some good ranged units in your army. The fact that melee must first knock them down is a huge tempo loss. 4 and 3 health is not insignificant. And the unit on top are only risking a 50/50 chance of 1 damage if they fall. All in all I was not really a fan at first blush, but am willing to give them a few plays.
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Post by Zeek the Sneak on Jul 4, 2016 2:59:33 GMT -6
originally I hadn't planned to use them, but one of the players had an enchantment that was uselss without the liths so we added them to make it "fair"
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Post by Targanth on Jul 4, 2016 8:18:02 GMT -6
Having an elevated location where a ranged figure has been a problem in Heroscape for years. Using them in scenarios should work OK since the scenario can be developed to account for the advantage they provide. However, using them in more simple battles they will probably prove to be the deciding factor in most games. It is helpful that they can be destroyed from on perspective, but brings up the question about attacking one of them. Since the Cryptlith is placed on a tile, does it have a height advantage (+1 defense) relative to figures on the base boards?
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Post by Zeek the Sneak on Jul 4, 2016 8:24:06 GMT -6
Having an elevated location where a ranged figure has been a problem in Heroscape for years. Using them in scenarios should work OK since the scenario can be developed to account for the advantage they provide. However, using them in more simple battles they will probably prove to be the deciding factor in most games. It is helpful that they can be destroyed from on perspective, but brings up the question about attacking one of them. Since the Cryptlith is placed on a tile, does it have a height advantage (+1 defense) relative to figures on the base boards? yes
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Post by smutteringplib on Jul 4, 2016 12:31:55 GMT -6
The rules only mention adjacency, not height advantage. I would play without it. I've always conceptualized heiggt advantage to be the ease of attacking or defending from high ground. Since the cryptolith is inanimate, it's not actually defending, it just has 4 of solid rock that you have to get through. And if you attack it from above, your high ground won't allow you to out maneuver it, it's a rock.
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Post by Gamjuven on Jul 5, 2016 6:31:40 GMT -6
I found it annoying that in the rulebook (on that 3rd pic you posted above) it has a picture of Jace on top of a ruin when he has no ability to get up there. His height is 4, and there were no steps to make it legal for him to make it.
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Post by smutteringplib on Jul 5, 2016 6:35:58 GMT -6
I found it annoying that in the rulebook (on that 3rd pic you posted above) it has a picture of Jace on top of a ruin when he has no ability to get up there. His height is 4, and there were no steps to make it legal for him to make it. Read the bottom right of the first picture. Jace can scale the Cryptolith by spending 4 movement.
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Post by Gamjuven on Jul 5, 2016 7:10:48 GMT -6
I found it annoying that in the rulebook (on that 3rd pic you posted above) it has a picture of Jace on top of a ruin when he has no ability to get up there. His height is 4, and there were no steps to make it legal for him to make it. Read the bottom right of the first picture. Jace can scale the Cryptolith by spending 4 movement. Right, I saw the height of 9 but forgot you are allowed to climb it unique compared to other terrain. Thanks!
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Colorcrayons
Apprentice
On a bit of a hiatus, sorry. So busy
Posts: 110
Mana: Red
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Post by Colorcrayons on Jul 6, 2016 11:51:13 GMT -6
RE: cryptolith's defense bonus from height: Its easier to dig from above than below.
I don't see a huge issue. Its meant to augment the play environment and it does just that. Fairly as well it would seem. Its a three wound buffer in an environment that doesn't have a lot of ranged units, so if anything its making ranged more viable in arena than it is overpowering it.
These arent fortresses from the heroscape days. Just weak towers that can crumble.
I think they are a welcome addition to this game and heroscape too.
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Post by smutteringplib on Jul 6, 2016 15:58:39 GMT -6
RE: cryptolith's defense bonus from height: Its easier to dig from above than below. I don't see a huge issue. Its meant to augment the play environment and it does just that. Fairly as well it would seem. Its a three wound buffer in an environment that doesn't have a lot of ranged units, so if anything its making ranged more viable in arena than it is overpowering it. These arent fortresses from the heroscape days. Just weak towers that can crumble. I think they are a welcome addition to this game and heroscape too. I guess i wasn't imagining digging so much as striking. But I can see the argument. I think that because they come preloaded on to a piece of terrain, giving them height advantage can often just make them a base of 5, and I think that might be a bit too much.
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Post by lefton4ya on Jul 10, 2016 22:45:59 GMT -6
I like them, but agree if you have a ranged figure on a Cryptolith and are facing a melee opponent, it does make it way in your favor, as you can snipe the figure attacking while he takes 3 or so turns to take down the Cryptolith. It is assumed you get height advantage when on top as you are 9 or 10 higher than spaces around you, unless you have a crap ton of tiles or another Cryptolith next to one. The only difference is it takes 3 points of vertical move up the terrain versus its height of 9 (plus 1 point to move horizontal), which is similar to the Heroscape Fortress set which had ladders that aided in climbing up towers at 2 times the elevation. If playing on a map with Cryptoliths, you definitely need to have one or more ranged figures or the Eldrazi Ruiner (which at 10 high can be engaged with a figure on a Cryptolith).
One really curious thing is that you can summon onto a Cryptolith, as one of the Innistrad rulebook scenarios has special rules that you cannot summon on one, which means the default is you can. It would be really powerful if you have a ranged squad and can get your plainswalker 5 spaces away from 2 or 3 different Cryptoliths and summon your squad on them before your opponent can. Personally I would just make that scenario rule a house rule at all times, as otherwise it seems way too powerful.
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Post by Gamjuven on Jul 11, 2016 5:27:46 GMT -6
Yeah summoning on top of a cryptolith is going to be huge for ranged squads. It's very difficult to take a Cryptolith down. It's almost never worth it to try and attack it. I think I'd always rather try and destroy a figure on top instead. It has too much /life, and nothing auto wounds it. I love the concept, but it's a piece of terrain that will be staying put in my games most likely, lol. Interestingly enough, I am finding that a lot of figures have to climb down rather than jump down due to the risk of getting a wound.
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Post by monochromenight on Sept 16, 2016 19:28:46 GMT -6
You can't used ranged attacks on the cryptoliths?
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nerddad
Neophyte
Posts: 19
Mana: Green, White
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Post by nerddad on Sept 17, 2016 6:32:22 GMT -6
I think you can use ranged attacks on cryptoliths, but if you are using ranged attacks it almost always makes more sense to attack the figure on top of the cryptolith instead.
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Post by monochromenight on Sept 17, 2016 10:28:35 GMT -6
Ah, I see. The two-player scenario is the one that specifically states you must be adjacent to the cryptolith to attack it because of low visibility (fog).
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Post by Aaron on Feb 22, 2017 13:26:38 GMT -6
what are cryptolith special abilities and how do you use them? i looked in the booklet and found nothing. What is the significance to being on top of one? Please tell me in detail. thanks!
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Post by lefton4ya on Feb 22, 2017 17:10:53 GMT -6
Being on top of one just gives you height, and unless 2 or more are next to each other, no one can get height on you and it forces melee units to take down the Cryptolith before they can attack you. DanieLoche made a Heroscape card for them, and I made it into 3/page.
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