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Post by mineman1 on Apr 14, 2016 16:19:45 GMT -6
Normally when an engaged creature moves to a tile that is still adjacent; the other creature doesn't get to take opportunity attacks. However, part of the rules for flying say that the flying creature still takes attacks when it begins to fly. So then, when a flying creature begins its turn next to an enemy creature and then moves to a tile that is still adjacent; does the enemy get to make an opportunity attack since the flying creature is now flying and left engagement when it began to fly?
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Toshi Umezawa
Apprentice
Posts: 100
Title: Hyozan, Clan Umezawa
Mana: Black
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Post by Toshi Umezawa on Apr 14, 2016 16:23:53 GMT -6
Flyers only take leaving engagement attacks (opportunity attacks, as you call them) at the beginning of their movement phase. You're correct. However, it does not take attacks if it is still adjacent to the original opponent's figure. |
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Toshi Umezawa
Apprentice
Posts: 100
Title: Hyozan, Clan Umezawa
Mana: Black
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Post by Toshi Umezawa on Apr 14, 2016 16:28:18 GMT -6
I almost forgot, welcome to the Arena mineman1. |
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Post by Targanth on Apr 15, 2016 7:16:40 GMT -6
Normally when an engaged creature moves to a tile that is still adjacent; the other creature doesn't get to take opportunity attacks. However, part of the rules for flying say that the flying creature still takes attacks when it begins to fly. So then, when a flying creature begins its turn next to an enemy creature and then moves to a tile that is still adjacent; does the enemy get to make an opportunity attack since the flying creature is now flying and left engagement when it began to fly? , welcome to the boards! Flying can get tricky. Technically, if you fly from one space that is adjacent to an enemy to a second space that is adjacent to the same enemy, you would be subject to a leaving engagement attack. That is because if you choose to fly the enemy get a leaving engagement attack as soon as you begin to fly. However, flying is an ability. A figure can choose to walk to the adjacent space rather than fly to the space. In that case the figure would not take a leaving engagement attack, since it did not fly to the next space. If you do walk, then you are subject to movement costs for elevation changes and such. |
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Post by darthporkchop on Apr 18, 2016 7:19:44 GMT -6
Flying can get tricky. Technically, if you fly from one space that is adjacent to an enemy to a second space that is adjacent to the same enemy, you would be subject to a leaving engagement attack. That is because if you choose to fly the enemy get a leaving engagement attack as soon as you begin to fly. However, flying is an ability. A figure can choose to walk to the adjacent space rather than fly to the space. In that case the figure would not take a leaving engagement attack, since it did not fly to the next space. If you do walk, then you are subject to movement costs for elevation changes and such. Targanth, Do you see this description of flying being used this way somewhere in the rule book? I've not looked it over, but I thought flying was static in that it can't be turned on and off. I could be wrong; I haven't looked at the rule book in months. I'm just playing devil's advocate. |
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Post by zackzeta on Apr 18, 2016 9:44:38 GMT -6
I don't have the card in front of me however flying is an alternation to the figures movement. The last bit is to acknowledge that while you normally avoid attacks of opportunity when you leave adjacent for the first movement you take it however since you aren't moving in a manner that triggers it, then your opponent doesn't gets an attack of opportunity.
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Post by Targanth on Apr 18, 2016 17:09:38 GMT -6
Flying can get tricky. Technically, if you fly from one space that is adjacent to an enemy to a second space that is adjacent to the same enemy, you would be subject to a leaving engagement attack. That is because if you choose to fly the enemy get a leaving engagement attack as soon as you begin to fly. However, flying is an ability. A figure can choose to walk to the adjacent space rather than fly to the space. In that case the figure would not take a leaving engagement attack, since it did not fly to the next space. If you do walk, then you are subject to movement costs for elevation changes and such. Targanth, Do you see this description of flying being used this way somewhere in the rule book? I've not looked it over, but I thought flying was static in that it can't be turned on and off. I could be wrong; I haven't looked at the rule book in months. I'm just playing devil's advocate. , that is a very fair question! Every creature with flying has to be able to land at some time. In AotP and Heroscape that sometime is at the end of every turn. The flying  in AotP is worded the same way as the flying in Heroscape. Heroscape also has a different , stealth flying, which avoids leaving engagement attacks. There was quite a bit of discussion on this situation in the early Heroscape days. The end result of the discussion was that every figure can walk, and a few can also fly. It has become a bit of a habit in Heroscape to declare if your flying capable figure has chosen to walk, because it is almost always better to fly. Almost always. In Heroscape, there is a glyph that makes it impossible to fly - Glyph of Rannveig (Wind). All figures with the Flying special lose this and cannot fly while standing on the Glyph of Rannveig. Figures with the flying are forced to walk when that glyph is active. I do not believe that the rule book specifically mentions this subject. However, just like any other listed on an army card, it is the player's choice to use a or to not use a . I can see that the wording of the might suggest that the figure can only fly, but that is not the case with any of the Heroscape figures. |
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Post by mineman1 on Apr 18, 2016 18:15:17 GMT -6
Targanth, Do you see this description of flying being used this way somewhere in the rule book? I've not looked it over, but I thought flying was static in that it can't be turned on and off. I could be wrong; I haven't looked at the rule book in months. I'm just playing devil's advocate. , that is a very fair question! Every creature with flying has to be able to land at some time. In AotP and Heroscape that sometime is at the end of every turn. The flying in AotP is worded the same way as the flying in Heroscape. Heroscape also has a different , stealth flying, which avoids leaving engagement attacks. There was quite a bit of discussion on this situation in the early Heroscape days. The end result of the discussion was that every figure can walk, and a few can also fly. It has become a bit of a habit in Heroscape to declare if your flying capable figure has chosen to walk, because it is almost always better to fly. Almost always. In Heroscape, there is a glyph that makes it impossible to fly - Glyph of Rannveig (Wind). All figures with the Flying special lose this and cannot fly while standing on the Glyph of Rannveig. Figures with the flying are forced to walk when that glyph is active. I do not believe that the rule book specifically mentions this subject. However, just like any other listed on an army card, it is the player's choice to use a or to not use a . I can see that the wording of the might suggest that the figure can only fly, but that is not the case with any of the Heroscape figures. Taken from Ob Nixilis card FLYING When counting movement spaces for Ob Nixilis, ignore elevations. Ob Nixilis may fly over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such as ruins. When Ob Nixilis stars to fly, he will take any leaving engagement attacks. So it seems ignoring elevations is automatic, but otherwise you get to chose whether or not you fly. |
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Post by zackzeta on Apr 18, 2016 19:25:15 GMT -6
the wording doesn't suggest you can walk it's static and is telling you "When counting movement spaces for Ob Nixilis....."
as for op this is the part that clarifies whether or not he takes it "When Ob Nixilis starts to fly, he will take any leaving engagement attacks." however he never triggers leaving engagement.
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Post by Targanth on Apr 18, 2016 22:07:03 GMT -6
You can see why this generated much discussion in Heroscape. Can a figure that has the to fly choose to walk instead of fly? In Heroscape, that is a definite yes. In AotP, where all other movement rules match those of Heroscape, the designers have not been asked that question as far as I know. Since at least one of the designers is the same for both games, I expect AotP will clarify that FLYING is optional. If a figure can choose to walk, then when it is walking it must follow walking rules; that means it does count extra spaces when climbing elevations if walking. I think everyone agrees that at the end of a turn a flying figure stops its movement on the ground. It is on the ground (standing) at the beginning of its turn. If it chooses to use the FLYING, then it must take leaving engagement attacks, but once it is flying it ignores elevation. The ignore elevation changes rule is a part of the FLYING . It does not apply if the figure does not choose to fly. In Heroscape, a figure may walk one space, fly two spaces, then land and walk two additional spaces. Or it might fly one space, walk one space, fly again for one space, then land and walk some more. Any combination of alternating is permitted. That also means that a figure that fly's land, then flies again is exposed to getting leaving engagement attacks every time it starts to fly. Just as in the rules there is no place that states that a flying creature may walk, there is also no place that says a flying creature may only move by flying. However, it is my opinion (and that of Heroscape) that since the flying creature must take off every new turn, walking is an option. |
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Post by mineman1 on Apr 19, 2016 7:38:46 GMT -6
I guess we will just have to go with that until the developers have a AMA.
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Post by darthporkchop on Apr 19, 2016 10:23:56 GMT -6
Your explanation makes perfect sense, Targanth. It is counter intuitive to the card game, but it makes sense in this context; after all it is a completely different game! I'm on board to defer to Heroscape rulings for semantics unless there is a very specific difference in AotP that would warrant a change.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 7:48:42 GMT -6
I've always thought flying to be fairly straight forward. The ability is just worded the way it is so that Flying creatures don't need to count elevation and aren't subject to being automatically engaged when moving over an enemy creature (thus potentially allowing an opportunity attack).
Ending your flying creature's movement adjacent to an enemy creature (ie: landing) engages them in combat. If the flying creature wants to leave engagement, it must take flight, but is still in reach of the enemy creature at this point and must be subject to an opportunity attack (unless otherwise negated by spell/enchantment or whatever). Moving around the enemy creature (remaining engaged) wouldn't activate an opportunity attack as I wouldn't consider the movement to be "in full flight".
Rule of Thumb (for me): Flying creatures move about the board freely, ignoring Terrain Elevations as well as Combat Engagement, until they land (end movement).
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Post by Targanth on May 3, 2016 11:38:34 GMT -6
spidermangeek, I like your approach for moving while staying engaged as not being in full flight. We are in agreement on how this works.
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in AotP is worded the same way as the flying 