Toshi Umezawa
Apprentice
Posts: 100
Title: Hyozan, Clan Umezawa
Mana: Black
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Post by Toshi Umezawa on Mar 2, 2016 21:30:58 GMT -6
We've been playing as though the enchantments stay on the squad when an entire squad is either killed or un-summoned. They go away when the Planeswalker is killed though. We are playing this way to simulate that the Walker is still putting their mana into these spells, just incase the figures comeback. I had 4 different people look though the manual for a ruling but no one found anything.
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Post by Targanth on Mar 2, 2016 21:37:31 GMT -6
There is a FAQ that says this:
Q. Can Rise of the Dark Realms bring back a squad creature from a dead army card (all other squad creatures on the card are dead as well)? Does the army card come back then, and with or without its old enchantments?
A. If a figure on an army card that is in your army card graveyard is returned to the battlefield, that army card is placed back in play.
When all figures are pictured an army card have been destroyed, the army card is placed in your army card graveyard. When an army card is placed in your army card graveyard, any Enchantments attached to the army card are placed in their owner’s graveyard.
So it's not in the manual, but in the FAQ. The enchantments are removed when the army card is removed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2016 8:45:13 GMT -6
We've been playing as though the enchantments stay on the squad when an entire squad is either killed or un-summoned. un-summoned is fine. Enchantments do stay on the Army card in that case, but if all figs end up in the graveyard, the army card loses its enchantments. Even Liliana's Zombies. If she brings them back, it's without any enchantments they may have had.
EDIT: False information given. Disregard post.
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Post by NoSorumbo on Mar 3, 2016 10:07:34 GMT -6
We've been playing as though the enchantments stay on the squad when an entire squad is either killed or un-summoned. un-summoned is fine. Enchantments do stay on the Army card in that case, but if all figs end up in the graveyard, the army card loses its enchantments. Even Liliana's Zombies. If she brings them back, it's without any enchantments they may have had. , is there any rule or FAQ that confirms that? Only reason I ask is when you unsummoned in Magic the Gathering Trading Card Game, the unsummoned unit would loose all counters, enchantments etc... If so, I've been playing wrong! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2016 10:34:30 GMT -6
un-summoned is fine. Enchantments do stay on the Army card in that case, but if all figs end up in the graveyard, the army card loses its enchantments. Even Liliana's Zombies. If she brings them back, it's without any enchantments they may have had. , is there any rule or FAQ that confirms that? Only reason I ask is when you unsummoned in Magic the Gathering Trading Card Game, the unsummoned unit would loose all counters, enchantments etc... If so, I've been playing wrong! Thanks for challenging that. I guess I've been the one playing it wrong.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2016 13:37:06 GMT -6
That rule doesn't exactly makes sense to me, but I'm not a Magic The Gathering player.
I also mistakenly assumed that some of the unsummon spells could affect/target only 1 squad creature, but after looking into this a little more, it seems as if all of the unsummoning spells send all figures from any given squad back to the reserve.
My initial logic was that if an unsummon spell affected only 1 creature/figure, why would the entire squad lose their enchantment(s) (kind of like when only 1 creature/figure is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard, the rest of the squad still retains their enchantment(s)..or is that wrong too?).
But again, it doesn't seem like that's a scenario that comes up at all. I guess they'll probably keep it that way. |
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Post by Targanth on Mar 3, 2016 14:21:31 GMT -6
I am thinking that currently there are only 3 cards that unsummon, and they all specify that the entire squad is affected. Aetherspouts Hidden Enchant Planeswalker. Flip Aetherspouts over when enchanted Planeswalker is attacked by a UNQ squad creature an opponent controls. Return the attacking squad to its owner's reserve. Destroy Aetherspouts. Call to Heel Hidden Enchant UNQ Squad. Fill Call to Heel over when a creature in enchanted squad is attacked by a UNQ squad creature an opponent controls. Return attacking squad to its owner's reserve. Destroy Call to Heel. Unsummon Target a UNQ squad creature within 4 clear sight spaces of a  Planeswalker you control. Return that squad to its owner's reserve. My way of looking at this would be that a PW summoned the squad of figures, not 3 separate individual creatures. Un-summon then would reverse the summoning process, and send any figures still remaining on the board back to the reserve. Already destroyed figures would not be un-summoned, because they are already removed from the plane. |
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Post by NoSorumbo on Mar 7, 2016 8:56:00 GMT -6
Agreed. The way I see it is that the Planeswalker is summoning all of this stuff to the battlefield (spells, creatures, enchantments) and all of this stuff is in it's purest form (enchanted) when it is un-casted. In this case, the reserves is sort of like the MGT hand where when something returns to that area, it goes back to the way it started. Unsummoning cleans the slate.
Random thought... I didn't see anything in the rulebook saying you had to or did not have to do this, but do you guys play with concealed Army Cards (i.e. you keep the army cards you chose hidden until summoned)?
I feel like that would keep both players guessing more, especially with more expansions.
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Post by Yawgmoth on Mar 7, 2016 10:44:26 GMT -6
I think, eventually, the idea would be to keep army cards face down until summoned.
But with how small the pool of choices currently are, its utterly pointless to do so.
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Toshi Umezawa
Apprentice
Posts: 100
Title: Hyozan, Clan Umezawa
Mana: Black
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Post by Toshi Umezawa on Mar 7, 2016 10:58:07 GMT -6
It's really hard to conceal your units when you have to share. If you tell the other players to pre-construct with their own game before starting then maybe this is a valid option. Until then, it's good enough to be able to summon squads to the battlefield.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2016 11:17:32 GMT -6
Random thought... I didn't see anything in the rulebook saying you had to or did not have to do this, but do you guys play with concealed Army Cards (i.e. you keep the army cards you chose hidden until summoned)? I feel like that would keep both players guessing more, especially with more expansions. Wouldn't the Unit/squad figs give it away? Or would you conceal those too? I don't see much of a point in concealing any of them unless you're only playing against people who know the game inside and out. For Casual play, it wouldn't make a difference? |
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Post by NoSorumbo on Mar 7, 2016 14:19:11 GMT -6
I was just thinking out loud for when my custom units are done (6 squads for each Color and 10  ), which means more variety, and more of a chance to surprise the opponent. Plus, I would keep the figures in the box until summoned. I see your point about casual versus competitive play though! Sorry for hijacking this thread! |
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Post by Shawn on Jun 3, 2016 7:45:26 GMT -6
Is there any penalty for unsummoning? It seems cheesy that if your units take a lot of damage but didn't die, that you could unsummon them and then bring them back the very next turn and put them back where they were (if within range of your PW). Seems like disengaging rules should apply on the unsummoned targets if engaged and/or must wait one turn before allowed to summon that army back to the board. Any clarification on this?
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gideonjura
Apprentice
Posts: 51 
Mana: White, Black
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Post by gideonjura on Jun 3, 2016 8:12:00 GMT -6
this is one strategy that could be implemented however you do risk next turn your planeswalker stands out more because of lack of figure on the board and you loose the ability of when your opponents planeswalker falls you can unsummon their squad (no planswalker to resummon them) so yes you may utilize this strategy but it does have some draw backs. Is there any penalty for unsummoning? It seems cheesy that if your units take a lot of damage but didn't die, that you could unsummon them and then bring them back the very next turn and put them back where they were (if within range of your PW). Seems like disengaging rules should apply on the unsummoned targets if engaged and/or must wait one turn before allowed to summon that army back to the board. Any clarification on this? Read more: planeswalker-arena.boards.net/thread/151/happens-enchantments#ixzz4AWe9b08t |
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Post by Targanth on Jun 4, 2016 15:04:39 GMT -6
Is there any penalty for unsummoning? It seems cheesy that if your units take a lot of damage but didn't die, that you could unsummon them and then bring them back the very next turn and put them back where they were (if within range of your PW). Seems like disengaging rules should apply on the unsummoned targets if engaged and/or must wait one turn before allowed to summon that army back to the board. Any clarification on this? One penalty for Unsummoning is that the squad is not available for use on the next turn. They can be re-summoned, but they can not be activated until the following turn. The spaces where they had been located may no longer be empty. A second penalty is as gideonjura mentioned, there is much less defense around for the PW that has unsummoned a squad during the opponent's turn. If you are playing with multiple Unsummon cards in your deck, then you may be able to abuse the  a great extent. |
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Post by mineman1 on Jun 4, 2016 16:09:41 GMT -6
"One penalty for Unsummoning is that the squad is not available for use on the next turn."-Targanth I am amusing that the player is playing and is using the card "unsummon" on their on squad to remove damage counters. Since the playing spells and summoning happen during the same phase it is possible to "unsummon" and then perform a normal summon if you have your planeswalker selected. Allowing for the squad to be activated next turn. |
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Post by Targanth on Jun 4, 2016 18:07:43 GMT -6
"One penalty for Unsummoning is that the squad is not available for use on the next turn."-Targanth I am amusing that the player is playing and is using the card "unsummon" on their on squad to remove damage counters. Since the playing spells and summoning happen during the same phase it is possible to "unsummon" and then perform a normal summon if you have your planeswalker selected. Allowing for the squad to be activated next turn. You are correct, mineman1. I did not think about using unsummon before the summoning phase in the same turn. Good catch !!!!! |
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Planeswalker you control. Return that squad to its owner's reserve.
), which means more variety, and more of a chance to surprise the opponent. Plus, I would keep the figures in the box until summoned.
a great extent. 