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Post by joechamp on Nov 11, 2018 19:55:08 GMT -6
Garruk Wildspeaker Color: Planeswalker - Garruk Height: 5 Cost: 365 Life: 7 Mve: 5 Rng: 1 Atk: 5 Def: 4 Abilities •Viel-Cursed: During drafting you may flip this card over. •Primal Hunter: When counting movement spaces for Garruk, ingore elevation. Garruk may move through water and terrain without stopping. Garruk may not disengage from enemy figures. Once per turn whenever Garruk destroys a figure he gains 1 predator token, if that figure is a Planeswalker he may gain 1 additional predator token. •Relentless: Garruk may atk all adjacent figures once. At the beginning of your turn, you may remove 1 predator token from Garruk; If you do he may attack each adjacent figure twice this turn. *# the reverse side; Garruk, The Viel-Cursed Color: Back, Planeswalker - Garruk Height: 5 Cost: N/A Life: 6 Mve: 5 Rng: 1 Atk: 5 Def: 4 Abilities •Caller of Beast At the beginning of Garruk turn, you may; Search you library for 5 cards, and reveal them to your opponent(s). Your opponent(s) select 2 cards to add to your hand, 2 cards to return to your deck and 1 to send to your graveyard. Then shuffle your deck. Use this ability only once per game. •Primal Hunter: When counting movement spaces for Garruk, ingore elevation. Garruk may move through water and terrain without stopping. Garruk may not disengage from enemy figures. Once per turn whenever Garruk destroys a figure he gains 1 predator token, if that figure is a Planeswalker he may gain 1 additional predator token. •Apex Predator Once, per turn you may remove up to X preadator tokens from any figures you control to activate one of the flowing effects X time(s); - Destroy adjacent creature. - Remove 1 damage marker from Garruk. - Gain +1 atk +1 def until the beginning of you next turn.
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moon
Apprentice
Posts: 63
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Post by moon on Nov 12, 2018 10:38:33 GMT -6
I like your design. Spending health for an extra color is very great idea especially for Garruk. But 4 ability for a card is too many, i thing. First 2 and second 2 may be good for 2 different cards. I have some wording suggestions for abilities; Liliana’s Curse: When creating your deck and army you may add color to Garruk and build your army and deck accordingly. If you do, total health of Garruk is 5 until the end of the game. Lilianas Blessing: Whenever you cast a spell; -You may draw a card -You may summon one squad figure in addition to you normal two. You may use this ability once per turn. And, about this ability, do you really want to summon a squad figure by figure? Supreme Predator: Once per turn you may destroy one adjacent creature, if you do put 2 damage counters on Garruk. I think 2 damages for a squad is too many. And you can give more details about tokens. Are boosts permanent or just for turn. And is there a limit for them?
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moon
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Posts: 63
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Post by moon on Nov 13, 2018 5:15:34 GMT -6
Supreme Predator and Master Hunter combo is a good one but may be overpowered. Kill a creature with SP then use token gain 1 hp back then attack with 5+1 , probably kill a squads, use token. Now you have full health and plus 2 defence and 2 less enemy squad. If you save your 2nd token to nex turn you may attack with 5+2 . And when garruk is a pure 1 of 7 health is not a big deal. And also you may design this as a 2 sided card. 1 side has lilianas curse that allow you to flip the card at the build phase and you may make changes on the second side and add lilianas blessing on that side. 3 ability per side could be better. And did you think about the cost.
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Post by Targanth on Nov 13, 2018 9:05:39 GMT -6
Thanks for posting your version of Garruk. moon thanks also for your comments! Here are some additional comments about wording on the powers.
I like Moon's suggestion to make Garruk a double-sided card something like Arlin Kord. One side would be the side and the other side would be the side. This means that you must choose if you wish to use at the beginning of the game. This would be helpful, since it does not seem appropriate to make the change after the game has started, since deck building is done before the first turn. If you do this, then the side would be the place to show the maximum life as 5. This would also mean that Liliana’s Curse and Lilianas Blessing would only need to be included on the side of the card. Then Liliana’s Curse can be worded something like this:
Liliana’s Curse:When creating your spell deck you may select both and spells. When drafting your army you may select both and Armies.
Again, as moon mentioned, when armies are summoned, all figures from the army card are normally summoned at the same time. So this wording might work better:
Liliana's Blessing: Use this Ability only once per turn. When playing a spell, you may choose to either - draw an additional spell card
or
- Summon a Squad. This squad does not count against the normal summoning rules.
Supreme Predator would then be placed on both sides of the Garruk card. Wording like this perhaps
Supreme Predator:
Use this Ability only once per turn. You may choose to either
- Destroy one adjacent Squad figure. If you do put 1 damage counter on Garruk.
or - Destroy one adjacent Hero figure. If you do put 2 damage counters on Garruk.
Master Hunter might be best broken into 2 powers, Mater Tracker and Master Hunter, and then both be placed only on the side of the Garruk card, as they seems to be more of a skill. Also, it might be better to be specific about what it means for Garruk to ignore elevation and terrain. Wording like this perhaps: Master Tracker: Garruk may climb up to (Garruk's Height # of) spaces without the normal cost to climb. If Garruk is on a space lower than a figure attacking him, treat Garruk as if he were on a space of equal height.
Master Hunter: When Garruk's normal attack destroys a figure, he gains 1 Predator token. Garruk may have a maximum of X Predator tokens on his card at any time. At the beginning of Garruk's turn, he may spend up to Y Predator tokens. Atk and Def bonus last until the beginning of Garruk's next turn.
Predator token: Heal one damage, and gain +1 Atk and +1 Def.
In addition to a cost for Garruk, he needs to have a Height assigned. Both these values are at the bottom of the card. Garruk would probably be a MEDIUM 4 or 5, depending on the figure you choose to represent him. A figure of Height 4 would stand as high as 4 terrain hexes stacked up.
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moon
Apprentice
Posts: 63
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Post by moon on Nov 13, 2018 12:34:43 GMT -6
Choosing a side should be an ability on main ( ) side. All transforming cards enters the game on the side with cost up. So lilianas curse should be in main side and allow player to flip card. It does not add anything extra to a planeswalker. And master hunter ability you suggested should be with supreme predator. Without this combo 5 health for a planeswalker is too low. And original MH adds token evenif Garruk destroys the figure with ability, your wording ignores that.
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Post by Targanth on Nov 13, 2018 13:24:45 GMT -6
moon I did not explain my thought very well. For my thoughts, there is NO main side of the card. Instead, you may choose to play Garruk as either or as and the card is never again flipped over during the game. It can not flip back and forth between the sides. The reason for this is that the spell deck for the character must be built before the game starts, the army card draft must be completed before the game starts. So, with the changes I discussed, the side of Garruk would only have the powers Supreme Predator, Master Tracker and Master Hunter. The side of the card would have the powers Liliana's Curse, Liliana's Blessing and Supreme Predator. I associated the drop from 7 health down to 5 health to be connected to the addition of the spells and armies. In my revision of MH the wording makes it so the can not destroy a Planeswalker.
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moon
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Posts: 63
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Post by moon on Nov 14, 2018 0:10:45 GMT -6
I think i couldnt make myself clear enough. Lilianas curse does nothing for a planeswalker. This only reminds the building rules. No need to add it then.
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Post by joechamp on Nov 14, 2018 14:43:18 GMT -6
I don’t even know what to say other than thank you for being active COST Hmm cost should be somewhere between Orbs Nixis, Sorin, and the Werewolf girl, as his ability’s are most Conley related to theirs. HEIGHT A hight of 5 I always imagined Garrick as a monster of man, you see the joke their! But yeah like a Northern Europe, or Russian you know big ass dude. Ability’s Re-working now, also I’m going to go with the dual card design for ease and clarification. If you guys could start thinking about stats numbers I’d appreciate as I never want to create anything unbalanced as that wouldn’t be fun.
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Post by joechamp on Nov 15, 2018 17:20:05 GMT -6
So I compiled our three thoughts And came to the conclusion that a door side card was necessary and a combination of powers or abilities is also necessary. Now that I’ve received all of my sets and have had the actual cards to read and play test with myself I think I will come up on a workable Garrruk Wildspeaker/ Viel Cursed. I’ve also changed how the predator token mechanic works because it was broken and very exploitable. Garruk Wildspeaker Color: Planeswalker - Garruk Height: 5 Cost: ? This part takes insane amounts of work and figuring. Life: 7 Mve: 5 Rng: 1 Atk: 5 Def: 3 Abilities •Viel-Cursed: During drafting you may flip this card over.*# * this is Lilianna’s cures reworded and simplified. •Primal Hunter: When counting movement spaces for Garruk, ingore elevation. Garruk may move through water and terrain without stopping. Garruk may not disengage from enemy figures. Once per turn whenever Garruk destroys a figure he gains 1 predator token, if that figure is a Planeswalker he may gain 1 additional predator token. *this A rewording of master hunter. So basically Garruk gets flying but can’t fly it’s just as the “ Hunter” of the MTG Realms I figure his movements shouldn’t be hindered by anything other than what’s being hunted. To go along with this thought I figure if he’s caught something he wouldn’t leave until something died. Additionally this ability also features his predator token gain mechanism which is no longer exploitable. •Relentless: Garruk may atk all adjacent figures once. At the beginning of your turn, you may remove 1 predator token from Garruk; If you do he may attack each adjacent figure twice this turn. *supreme predator was broken as fux, easily exploitable and it just had to go I appreciate you al trying to work with it but we all know it would create highly unbalanced game states. Relentless is strong,balanced unexploitable and combos well with the fact the he can’t disengage so he has to fight. *# the reverse side; Garruk, The Viel-Cursed Color: Back, Planeswalker - Garruk Height: 5 Cost: N/A Life: 5 Mve: 5 Rng: 1 Atk: 5 Def: 4 Abilities •Caller of Beast At the beginning of Garruk turn, you may remove 1 predator counter and deal one damage to Garruk; Search you library for 5 cards, and travel them to your opponent(s). Your opponent(s) select 2 cards to add to your hand, 2 cards to return to your deck and 1 to send to your graveyard. Then shuffle your deck. * This is iffy, maybe even needs to be once per game but seems balanced. The loss of life a card and removal of counter seems like it will make it fair. •Primal Hunter: When counting movement spaces for Garruk, ingore elevation. Garruk may move through water and terrain without stopping. Garruk may not disengage from enemy figures. Once per turn whenever Garruk destroys a figure he gains 1 predator token, if that figure is a Planeswalker he may gain 1 additional predator token. * This ability is on both sides as it is Garruk, and it’s his predator token gain mechanic. •Apex Predator Once, per turn you may remove up to X preadator tokens from any figures you control to activate one of the flowing effects X time(s); - Destroy adjacent creature. - Remove 1 damage marker from Garruk. - Gain +1 atk +1 def until the beginning of you next turn. *The money shot, the value talk to me and let me know what you think. There will be spells that move and create predator tokens, and creatures as well. After reading the rules in SOI this is my new Garruk what do you think?
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moon
Apprentice
Posts: 63
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Post by moon on Nov 16, 2018 2:33:19 GMT -6
Caller of the beast is overdesigned. Player already has 3 option to use tokens. 4th and time consuming one makes this one obsulite. Once pergame thing would be more better. And potential 2 health for 2 cards and 1 discard is may not be best way. Actually player starts the game with 7 cards in deck (6 after first turn draw) and you want to reveal 5 of them. You may not have enough cards for the most of the game😊
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Post by joechamp on Nov 16, 2018 6:39:33 GMT -6
Actually player starts the game with 7 cards in deck (6 after first turn draw) and you want to reveal 5 of them. You may not have enough cards for the most of the game😊 So I’m not to familiar with the concept of over design but I do understand you noted points. While I’ve never said this so you would know, but personally I run with a house rule 15 cards/300pts; After I expand my collection I plan to run 20cards/400pts. Why, because personally the cards are one of the coolest features and it creates more depth game to game allowing you to see and try more strategy’s so it will never become stale. On to fixing •Caller of Beast, I’m thinking once per game no cost. With the random loss of 1 card being your cost as it’s still a effect. New wording; •Caller of Beast At the beginning of Garruk turn, you may; Search you library for 5 cards. Reveal them to your opponent(s). Your opponent(s) select 2 cards to add to your hand, 2 cards to return to your deck and 1 to send to your graveyard. Then shuffle your deck. Use this ability only once per game.
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Post by Targanth on Nov 16, 2018 8:57:29 GMT -6
With Primal Hunter, Garruk gets Flying, but can not Fly? Are you sure you really want Garruk to be able to reach the top of a Cryptolith using only 1 movement point, just like a flier? Gideon has counter-strike. The Primal Hunter auto-kill of Garruk means that Gideon can not activate Counter Strike. Many scenarios use the victory condition of the 'kill the opponents PW'. Since Primal Hunter can destroy an opposing PW without the PW even getting a chance to defend (it is an auto-kill ), it is overpowered for that type of scenario. For Relentless, I think you will need some additional information for clarity. He can attack every adjacent figure every round he is activated. Must he attack every figure? (think about Gideon again) If he uses a predator token, does he have to attack every adjacent figure once before he can begin with his second attack on each figure? This can be a very important issue. Being allowed to attack one figure twice before attacking any of the other figures allows him to ignore other figures (think about Gideon again) For Apex Predator, you can choose any one of the 3 abilities. I think your wording means that if predator tokens are used, the same ability must be used the second time or third time. The wording also suggests that you could use a predator token from a different army card to Apex Predator. I don't know how other army cards are gaining predator tokens. If Garruk can use a token from some other card, does he need to be adjacent to a figure from that card? Or just close? If close, just how close.
So here is my game plan for using this Garruk. Fly Garruk adjacent to my opponents' PW. Use Primal Hunter. I win.
My opinion is that powers that Auto-Kill a Planeswalker are overpowered. Garruk has MULTIPLE Auto-Kill powers.
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moon
Apprentice
Posts: 63
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Post by moon on Nov 16, 2018 9:54:30 GMT -6
@targant do i miss something but. I couldn't see any destroy the PW part. It says when you destroy a PW. So there is no autokill And wording of relentless is as same as Sorin's . It means attacker roll once and defenders roll for each figure. So when player spend a token they do this twice. About caller of beast, what happens there are less than 5 cards in the deck?
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Post by Targanth on Nov 16, 2018 11:19:56 GMT -6
Thanks moon I see that Blade Master is the same as the first part of Relentless. When Sorin Attacks, he may attack each adjacent figure once. I guess my memory is not good, as I have not played in a while. I do not remember if a PW is considered a figure. If a PW is a figure, then destroying a figure is an auto-kill. AotP is not very consistent in the use of the words Figure and Creature. I was remembering that Creature referred to a Hero or Squad member, while Figure referred to PWs as well as to Heroes and Squad members.
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moon
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Posts: 63
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Post by moon on Nov 16, 2018 12:01:44 GMT -6
Figure contains PW, hero and a member of squad. Creature contains hero and A member of squad.
Any of the abilities let the player destroy a figure. I think you are misreading something. Primal Hunter gives player 2 token when PW already destroyed not make player to destroy PW. At list this is what i understand from your senteces.
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Post by Targanth on Nov 16, 2018 12:43:42 GMT -6
moon You are correct. I was mis-reading the updated powers. Thanks for getting me back on track!
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Post by joechamp on Nov 16, 2018 17:02:11 GMT -6
So I’m confused now, the only auto kill is Apex Preadtor, which yes you must active an resolve the same ability equal to removed counters otherwise you would never be in a compromiseisg situation, IMO anways. Also do we all understand that predator token don’t do anything now? There just used for whatever a card says they are used for. Relentless is just sorins ability but twice and like Sorin you may atk in any order you please, I feel a sport hunter would always kill as they please. Yes flying is okay as he can’t fly but is a hunter, he only ingores terrain and cannot pass opposings figs and actual get trapped by them; balancing factor. Also what does moving to a crypto glyp do for you, he has no range? It just allows him to run(hunt) across the battlefield unhindered by the battlefield itself. moon, if you allow that situation to happen you’ve lost the use of the ability and that’s just poor strategy on part of the player, like Kiora’s ability to move the top two cards of the deck. I think I touched over eveything, let me know as I am waiting to cement this card before I release the creature that will go with him, ****spoiler*** Garruks Pack Leader, and Garruk’s Companion will also deal with predator counters however only one of them can generate predator counters. I plan to make an enchantment that will generate PC and a soccery or two that will also.
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Post by joechamp on Nov 16, 2018 17:05:01 GMT -6
Also guys Sárkán is next to complete my first expansion, the other monster of a man so let’s hammer this out an get some new figs before Christmas, Sarkan is dragon guys you’ll love it also he’ll have some nifty ability’s, spells and a transform of his own!
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moon
Apprentice
Posts: 63
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Post by moon on Nov 20, 2018 14:19:16 GMT -6
I think you may edip post and use final design because it is too hard to understand where is thw final form.
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Post by joechamp on Nov 20, 2018 14:51:25 GMT -6
I think you may edip post and use final design because it is too hard to understand where is thw final form. I was waiting to make sure we were good with the final form, editing now.
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