moon
Apprentice
Posts: 63
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Post by moon on Sept 14, 2018 12:44:02 GMT -6
I like the game with lore but aotp scenarios ignores this aspect of game. I think boss battles are more lore based formats. Like: 2 pws fought with Eldrazi Ruiner and saved the plane. However, there is only boss battle so far so i wanted to create more with existing hero creatures. Then I looked to mtg lore and I discovered that there is a battle between Avacyn and planeswalkers at Innistrad.
I tried to create a Avacyn boss but i dont have any access to my games right now. So i could not beautfy my concept, therefor I'll share my ideas till now and start a discussion for a good scenario. I hope you like the ideas and participate to my quest.
Avacyn still has all hero stats(except hitpoint) and abilities. Also has 3 new abilities;
1. Getting Madder: Whenever Avacyn destroys a figure, if there are fewer than 5 charge counters on Avacyn, put a charge counter on Avacyn. 2. Spread the Madness: At the start of Avacyn's turn, you may remove any number of charge counters from Avacyn. If you do, range of The Madness of Angels increases by 1 for each counter removed until next turn. 3. The Madness of Archangel: "The Madness of Angels" also deals damage to planeswalkers.
My strugles: 1. I couldn't decide the hitpoint. I wanted to add something calculative. Ie. Avacyn's hero hp + 3* #of player. But I am not sure the value. 2. I am not sure the abilities. At current design, there is no reason to summon creatures. And avacyn has no protection mechanism for ranged attackers. Especially Chandra eventually kills avacyn with her second ability. 3. Because there aren't any creature to be summoned by Avacyn, almost half of the planeswalkers' abilities are getting useless. 4. And I haven't thougt about map yet. This is the point, i came so far.
Thank you for your suggestions and critiscs.
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Arcanis
Apprentice
Posts: 81
Title: The Omnipotent
Mana: Blue, Green, White
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Post by Arcanis on Sept 25, 2018 5:29:37 GMT -6
In terms of boss Avacyn's abilities I think they fit her well in terms of charging up her madness. Looking at the way the ruiner was set out you should just give her the madness of archangels ability so there aren't too many references to other abilities as this could get confusing. To address your issues: 1) Her life total should be calculative something like you suggested. The ruiner has 20 life for two opponents and 36 for three so only 3X may not be enough. A formula is preferable so there could be many opponents if wanted. Probably a good way to set it is to play trial games counting up her life until she wins to guide you to a good value. 2) Giving Avacyn a boost on or around the cryptoliths as this would fit with the lore. Maybe ranging options when on the cryptoliths as this would give her more play and give a secondary objective to the planeswalkers to take down the cryptoliths. 3) Avacyn could pseudo-summon the Avacynian Inquisitors and Skirsdag Cultists in the same way the ruiner does so she has more board presence and then take a turn with one of them after her turn so she gets more play time as well. 4) Cryptoliths, wierded spaces and night time would be my suggestions here. Perhaps linked to the number of cryptoliths standing Avacyn could get a boost so she isn't easily swarmed in the early game, similar to the ruiner's boost according to the glyphs.
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moon
Apprentice
Posts: 63
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Post by moon on Sept 25, 2018 11:13:28 GMT -6
I honestly thankful to you for your really nice advices. In terms of boss Avacyn's abilities I think they fit her well in terms of charging up her madness. Looking at the way the ruiner was set out you should just give her the madness of archangels ability so there aren't too many references to other abilities as this could get confusing. I honestly couldn't understand your suggestion here. Should I change the madness of archangel's name or combine the all 3 new abilities into 1 or I totally misunderstood and you sad another thing? 1) Her life total should be calculative something like you suggested. The ruiner has 20 life for two opponents and 36 for three so only 3X may not be enough. A formula is preferable so there could be many opponents if wanted. Probably a good way to set it is to play trial games counting up her life until she wins to guide you to a good value. 2) Giving Avacyn a boost on or around the cryptoliths as this would fit with the lore. Maybe ranging options when on the cryptoliths as this would give her more play and give a secondary objective to the planeswalkers to take down the cryptoliths. 3) Avacyn could pseudo-summon the Avacynian Inquisitors and Skirsdag Cultists in the same way the ruiner does so she has more board presence and then take a turn with one of them after her turn so she gets more play time as well. 4) Cryptoliths, wierded spaces and night time would be my suggestions here. Perhaps linked to the number of cryptoliths standing Avacyn could get a boost so she isn't easily swarmed in the early game, similar to the ruiner's boost according to the glyphs. 1) I am totally agree with you. So I need to reach my game first. So I will work on that on new year. 2) Actually I havent thought about the cryptoliths but your idea is briliant. Has range on one is a very good idea. So this means New Ability: Protector of Cryptoliths When Avacyn is on a cryptolith, her range is 5. 3) I wasn't so sure about summoning. This may look avacyn more like ruiner. But anyway, if she has 2 squad it differs enough. I think summoning depends on madness count make this unique enough. Like, summon AI at 0 madness and summon SC when She has 2 or more madness. 4) With the help of new ability Cryptoliths are a requirement now. And i will work on shape of map. Like you sad a night map will be very thematic for Innistrad. I hope, helps keep coming. Thank you😊
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moon
Apprentice
Posts: 63
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Post by moon on Sept 25, 2018 11:49:06 GMT -6
On a second thought, actually I can make the summoning thing more fun. Avacyn can summon any army card depends on madness count. At the beginning Avacyn has 175 point budget for an army but avacyn can only summon human creatures. (There is only 1 for each color now.) 0: 1: 2: 3: 4: This way avacyn should keep track her madness level to summon any unit. This way both team set their strategies on this stat. And may be controlling of creatures may differ depends on maddnes count. Let say 2 army at 0 and 1 army at 1-2 and none at higher.
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Arcanis
Apprentice
Posts: 81
Title: The Omnipotent
Mana: Blue, Green, White
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Post by Arcanis on Sept 27, 2018 6:26:01 GMT -6
What I meant was that Spread the Madness and Madness of Archangels should be one ability as abilities don't reference each other in that way. Getting Madder can still be it's own ability as it doesn't specifically reference the others. And may be controlling of creatures may differ depends on maddnes count. Let say 2 army at 0 and 1 army at 1-2 and none at higher. This sounds great and would make the player have to balance their strategy rather than staying at either high or low madness.
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moon
Apprentice
Posts: 63
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Post by moon on Sept 27, 2018 13:34:35 GMT -6
List of abilities.
Flying;... Getting Madder: Whenever Avacyn destroys a figure, if there are fewer than 5 charge counters on Avacyn, put a charge counter on Avacyn. Protector of Cryptoliths: When Avacyn is on a cryptolith, her range is 5. Spread the Madness: The first thing at Avacyn's turn, you may move and attack with Avacyn's army or 3 nearest figures. Number of figures decrease by 1 for each charge counter. Then if any of the figures has 1 health, that figure joins the Avacyn's army and its controller changes. The Madness of Archangel: At the end of Avacyn's turn, you may deal 1 damage to all adjacent figures you don't control. Also at the start of Avacyn's turn, you may remove any number of charge counter from Avacyn. If you do, range of this ability increases by 1 for each counter removed until your next turn.
Avacyn boss drops the "Madness of Angels" ability and gains "Madness of Archangel". I didn' want to block some army cards so I thought another way to give avacyn an army. Because planewalkers are contollable too, players would want to summon something else. And avacyns army may grow so its army units is a nice target for opponent abilities and spells.
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Arcanis
Apprentice
Posts: 81
Title: The Omnipotent
Mana: Blue, Green, White
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Post by Arcanis on Oct 2, 2018 5:16:27 GMT -6
Please can you clarify what you mean for the Spread the Madness ability. I think I understand what you are trying to do but it is unclear who can be used on a turn and who is then gained permanently.
To make the Madness of Archangels ability easier to interpret I would suggest wording it as such: At the start of Avacyn's turn you may remove any number of charge counters. At the end of Avacyn's turn you may deal 1 damage to each figure you don't control within X clear sight spaces where X is the number of charge counters removed at the beginning of the turn plus one.
This is a great set of abilities. I look forward to seeing more scenario details soon.
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moon
Apprentice
Posts: 63
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Post by moon on Oct 2, 2018 11:32:06 GMT -6
For spread the madness, Avacyn player chooses to activate her curent army or 3 nearst figure. If she chooses 3 figure option at the end of turn and 1 of these figure has 1 health remaining she gains control permanently. This is what i wanted to say.
For madness of archangel, this ability has 1 base range so total range becomes X+1 so X representation may not be best way to say that.
I really want to finilize the scenario but, I am doing my military service and I don't have my game right now. Map and health point need to be designed with game.
But in theory, abilies of avacyn are so powerful so i may not increase health much. She has range, has static damage, owns army and, has take-control ability. I think these are enough for her to go toe toe with any PW or maybe 2.
For map, ambush map in the SOI is may be a good starting point. The distance between cryptoliths maybe set to 6(speed of Avacyn). This way she can move between cryptoliths and always keep her range.
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Arcanis
Apprentice
Posts: 81
Title: The Omnipotent
Mana: Blue, Green, White
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Post by Arcanis on Nov 4, 2018 9:41:59 GMT -6
I understand Spread the Madness now. To make it easier to read maybe put it as "At the beginning of Avacyn's turn, choose one: ..." with the two options as bullet points. Also, I'm thinking that the number of enemy figure she can use should be the number of charge counters rather than 3 minus this number. This would stop her from being overpowered on her first few turns, where she could in theory take control of an enemy planeswalker at the beginning of the game, and would make the first part of the game about her building up the madness wile the enemy planesalkers attempt to take her down before she can take control. For Madness of Archangels, I was considering the initial 1 on the range. MtG has used "X plus one" notation before, for example Tarmogoyf, which is what I was basing my wording off of. I was also trying to avoid a bit of confusion in the difference between "adjacent" and "within 1 clear sight space" as these do differ slightly according to the game rules. I agree that Avacyn may not need much extra life at this point. I also like your map ideas. Avacyn cyptolith hopping would be a decent tactic.
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moon
Apprentice
Posts: 63
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Post by moon on Nov 6, 2018 6:02:09 GMT -6
Making her overpowered is actually my intention. I think that would be the reason for players to summon units. They will want to summon units to prevent themself to be controlled.
Without this huge adventage, units are just snacks for avacyn to increase her madness range, so in my opinion no player would summon any army, without any instant effect.
And thank you for wording advices. I will use them on final design.
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